The Healing Process
“I like your t-shirt” remarked Pablo Clements as I sidled up to the table where himself, James Lavelle and their PR star Hannah are sitting. Another gorgeous April afternoon, perched on a roof terrace enjoying lunch whilst the rest of central London’s madness crawls by down below. Always do your homework; two superstar DJs and producers who as kids were into their Hip Hop in a very large way. Hence the t-shirt with a photo of LL Cool J carrying a ghetto blaster on his shoulder which was splattered across my chest and broke the ice. UNKLE release their 4th album this month, ‘Where Did The Night Fall’ comes out on their very own Surrender All label. Fourteen tracks recorded around the world in London, Ibiza, Melbourne and Los Angeles and yet again features another host of guest artists including gravelly voiced legend Mark Lanegan, Katrina Ford, Joel Cadbury and Gavin Clark.
The sight of LL Cool J sets them off, discussing the sad fact that Gang Starr’s Guru was only 43 when he died of cancer a few weeks ago, Lady Ga Ga’s history of stripping on stage when once a go-go dancer and Pablo’s young son Shane’s new obsession with the latest Rihanna tune that he recently played thirty times in a row to learn the words – first thing Sunday morning.
James, we’ve met a few times over the years, some blurry memories. I think we had a scuffle with a bouncer at Manumission once years ago and I wrote about in Mixmag, I wasn’t sure how you were going to take it at the time. And you also worked for the Bluebird Records chain for DMC in London…
“Yeah I worked up at the Edgeware Road branch, I was there until the end when it closed, a very sad day.”
Pablo, you remarked recently that you have always thought that UNKLE records are a bit “too straight, a bit too regimented.”
James: “You didn’t say that did you?”
…and with ‘Where Did The Night Fall’, you wanted “to make it more of a groove based record”. Did you accomplish what you set out to do?
Pablo: “I do. I think it’s a free-er record. Normally records start with a beat but the idea is there. This time we concentrated on how moving the groove was, if you listen to tracks such as ‘Follow Me Down’ and ‘The Runaway’ that’s where we started and just sort of built up from those kind of blocks. A lot of the stuff with UNKLE in the past like ‘Broken’ from the last album, the song was there and we just work around it. This time round it was a case of trying to do everything we possible and try and do in different ways. So in answer to your question, yeah I think we did. I think when you’re listening to the record, I think you’ll find it’s definitely more looser I think and there was definitely a thought to do that.”
Your past three albums all have their own individual styles, ‘Psyence Fiction’ is all about psychedelic hip hop beats, ‘Never Never Land’ all dance with the anthem ‘In A State’ and ‘War Stories’, altogether more rocky teaming up with desert rock svengali Chris Goss. So how does the new album compare to the last album, do you think it’s on similar lines?
Pablo: “This album is definitely more of an electronically influenced record.”
James: “We wanted to take elements from we’ve done in the past but try and make a record which was looser, more groove based, had more of an analogue feel on a keyboard level and much more of a psychedelic feel. In a weird way I think we tried to make a modern, psychedelic record coming from our world which is being a DJ and much more a collage, sample world.”
James, you’ve said that this is more of an optimistic record…
“It is yeah. People say that our records are dark, I think people like Maryln Manson and Led Zepellin are dark, they have a melancholic edge to them. In the past our records have had a certain element of conceptual feeling about how they have been put together unlike ‘Where Did The Night Fall’ which is much looser and much more track to track, until you get down much further down the line and you start to piece together what you think the beginning, middle and end is going to be. We joked that this should be more of UNKLE plays UNKLE rather than us trying to make it more of a rock record or whatever it may be. Also the mix. The last record ‘War Stories’ was mixed in Pro Tools and it has a certain way about it for that reason. Whereas this time we let mistakes happen to let them become part of the record, rather than worrying about it and clean everything up really tightly. With modern technology today you can make everything so precise and clean and I think we just wanted to lose a little bit of that on this record.”
Is this the first time you’ve had to whittle the final selection down from 50 to 14?
James: “Yeah it is, but it’s not a bad problem to have. There are various different reasons we got ourselves in that position. One, I think we are a lot more proficient at what we do, secondly the technology is getting better to help us what we do and thirdly, we are totally focussed now. I don’t have Mo-Wax, Pablo doesn’t have his DJing anymore. It’s a day job in a good way and that’s what you’re focussed on. Everyday you go in the studio and make something and that either turns into a song or it doesn’t, but it’s a lot more focussed on a day to day level on what we’re doing.”
So Pablo, you’re not DJing at all now?
“Well, ish, the odd little bit here and there. I obviously was DJing every weekend when I was in The Psychonauts, but now it’s more of I’d rather make the music. I did ten years of it and you’d come back from the weekend and don’t start working until Wednesday because you’re so shattered and then you’re off again.”
James: “Well I still have the luxury of still being part of all that. It’s a love hate relationship.”
What artists were you both listening to growing up that made you want to get into dance music…?
James: “Well you’re wearing the t-shirt that describes the sort of records we were listening to Dan.”
Pablo: “It was all Hip Hop and Electro when we were twelve or thirteen. The first things I remember getting and listening to were the ‘Streetsounds’ compilations and then Grandmaster Flash albums, Kool Moe Dee, Schooly D, LL – Electro 6 on tape, everything on tape from Our Price.”
James: “Then from the age of 14 or 15 there was the influence of House coming from America and the UK, a lot of what became really influential was what was happening here. The whole Bleep sound, the beginning of Warp and the start of Hardcore.”
Did you ever make it to any of the DMC Mixing heats or Finals?
Pablo: “I entered the Bristol heat once. I was shit. My mate Tim did well.”
James: “One of my prized possessions is Sefton Turntable X’s Gold Jacket. I’ve always been into it, especially working with Tony Vegas from The Scratch Perverts over the years. I remember getting a call from in Japan one year, I was like ‘what the fuck are you ringing me in Japan for?’ He replied, ‘I’ve just entered the DMC World DJ Championships, and I’m going to win it.’ I was like ‘what are you talking about, I thought you were into Joni Mitchell?’ He said, ‘I am, but I’m going to win the DMC World DJ Championships.’ He called me back about a month later and said ‘I’ve won it’. The first UNKLE Tour was with The Scratch Perverts and also with Mo-Wax, that whole mixing thing was huge and had a huge influence on us. For me, growing up the coolest thing when I was fourteen was a DMC jacket, that and the Def Jam jacket. My greatest prize was walking down Oxford Street with a gold Sefton Terminator jacket on which I nearly got mugged for five times, I had a few knives put onto me for that jacket. That whole culture was hugely influential to me and working for Bluebird I was surrounded by it. It was such a smaller environment back then, people were crossing into different genres, you’d have Tim Westwood and Paul Oakenfold together in the shop and sometimes they’d be buying similar records. Tim Simenon and Simon Dunmore rubbing shoulders, that period is timeless. Then it all just really opened up. There is a list of records that probably defined that time, whether it was A Guy Called Gerald or 808 State and then the Nervous Records and Strictly Rhythm tracks. It’s funny, whilst we were mixing the record, Pablo came and stayed at mine and it was the first time we’d actually spent a bit of time together as we’d had so many different people with us in the studio. Anyway we were getting a bit drunk when he shouted over to me ‘you’ll never believe what I’ve just downloaded – Bombing’ which was the first show that I ever watched that got me wanting to be a DJ, then we watched The Bad Meaning Good, two shows that we both watched when they first came out. Then the whole sample culture thing came along, it was Sefton Terminator who first turned me onto this, the first record he played me was Herbie Hancock’s ‘Head Hunters’ and he said ‘the best thing about this record is that you can play it 33RPM or 45RPM and it still sounds amazing.’
You set up your Surender All label and fashion house after all of the major label bullshit to release your own material but also help new blood through such as San Fran’s Sleepy Sun who appear on the record. Do you think it is more difficult today to break through than it was for you two in the 90s?
James: “I do, only though because of the volume of it, what we’ve created is mass volume of product. It’s always been hard, but before there was more of a focus. I think the filter system has been damaged. It’s like when you’re building a house, you have a plumber, a carpenter, a bricklayer – generally you have a bunch of people who are going to make this thing, like the record industry was before. You had A&R men, Press Officers etc. plus someone in the company who’s been working in the industry 30 years. I just feel that that whole system has fallen apart and what it has done in one way it has given an opportunity for artists via the technology to maker music and get out there and make it instantly available, but the actual mechanics of the record industry has changed with the lack of support and that ‘engine’ doesn’t work anymore. So I think it’s harder to substain things as a young artist today.”
When I was in Miami recently for WMC, it was crazy the amount of DJs I talked to the amount of DJs I spoke to who were saying how difficult it is now to get to the good records as there’s simply too much material around and too many ways for producers to get their tracks to the DJ…
Pablo: “It’s true. I’ve been away for the past few weeks and I’ve come home to something like 400 new downloads waiting for me.”
James: “Before you had the record shop filter system. When I was working at Bluebird, I’d be with people with really good taste playing music to three or four lines of people playing them tracks that we thought they’d be into.”
Pablo: That’s it, that’s totally the missing thing. There’s a massive gap awaiting for someone there to create something, no idea how but it’s what’s needed. It’s like, you understand what that person wants.”
James: “You’ve also got to remember that back in the day it cost a certain amount of money to make a record. You have to pay for the studio, get it mastered, pay for it to be pressed, it’d cost you three or four grand to put a record out – maybe if you’re doing it cheap with a white label two thousand pounds. Now you don’t have to pay for anything other than for someone to digitally send your record out, maybe get a mate to do it for a hundred quid. So as a DJ you’re constantly bombarded by millions and millions and millions and millions of records. And whilst I think that it’s great that people can create so much, it all boils down to that filter system again, it’s all over the place at the moment. But going back to your original question about new people breaking through, I do think it’s harder for them to substain things as because of this system people have less of an attention span and things are changing so quickly. My daughter is twelve and her attention span is like…well she doesn’t see things in anyway that we did when we were growing up. Back then to build up what you had took a considerable amount of time. Through that system and the social environment you’d meet people into similar things, you’d read record covers and do that whole process. That doesn’t exist anymore, everything is so quick. You know, what people forget is that someone like David Bowie didn’t have a hit record until his fifth record, there’s a lot of bands like that who have taken time to get there. The music industry machine now is all about moving things quickly, turning things around fast.”
Pablo: “There’s no artist development anymore. You either do it our way or you are on your own.”
James: “I feel for them, but on another level it’s an amazing opportunity for all of us that we can reach out and create, there’s just something in the middle that’s missing at the moment.”
A great quote James from you…’It’s not about one individual, it’s about communal spirit and essentially, the music rules’. You’ve got a good band of brothers around you at the moment, Is this the happiest you’ve ever been?
James: “Yes.”
You opened up Matter a couple of years ago with an UNKLE live show, is this venue just what London needed or is it still Fabric all of the way?”
Pablo: Well I didn’t really get it.”
James: “No I didn’t either, it didn’t really work for me. As a live experience I don’t think it’s very well designed for the kind of show we do. Fabric has something very special about it and something very unique, not that I get the chance to play there much anymore.”
Who are you going to vote for in The Election?”
James: “I think we’re both undecided still, we’re just worried about it being a Hung Parliament.”
July 16th sees you teaming up once again with The Heritage Orchestra at The De Le Werr Pavillion in Bexhill-on-Sea, the seaside town that up until now has been most famous as the birthplace for 1970s TV cook Fanny Craddock…
James: “Shall we get her to come down?”
…well you can if you have a shovel. What does it feel like hearing your music played by a 30 piece orchestra?
James: “It’s pretty extraordinary, so sophisticated and the musicianship is amazing. None of our records have ever been written on sheet music or with notes, everything’s been jammed or collaged. And then you get these people that have disected and written it into a complete musical form that makes sense and you think, wow.”
Pablo: “Totally. We could be in the studio making the music and it might be two in the morning and one of us will say yeah let’s put that there and you do it without thinking really. And then when you see an orchestra play it you think oh my god, that’s amazing but at the same time quite comical because it’s like, did we really make that?”
Do you have a lot of input into the performances or do you just let them get on with it?
James: “We all agree beforehand what we think should be played and then they go off and interpret it. It’s the best job in the world really because we don’t have to do anything.”
Pablo: “One of the most rewarding things about it is, is that at our first show with Heritage, a lot of my friends came down and brought their kids who’d they’d all been trying to get them interested in learning a musical instrument – with no luck. The whole school orchestra thing is dying, everyone wants to be a rock star. So it was fantastic seeing these kids taking it all in and getting really excited by the fact it had a contemporary sound to it. It was also great working with young hip kids and see them performing it.”
Festival season coming along, you looking at a bust Summer?
James: “Not a massive amount as the record came in a bit late to book a lot of festivals, we’ve also been touring a lot for the last two years and I think people are slightly on the fence a little to see what we’ve got. It’s also an economic thing, we can only do it for a certain amount of money so we can pay for the production for what we actually need to do. I think next year will be a much bigger festival season for us, people will have had time to live with and digest the record.”
Pablo: “I think we’re doing about 12 shows but offers are coming in all of the time.”
What have been some of your festival highlights?
James: “Following Muse on at Benicassim in Barcelona was pretty fucking amazing.”
You shit yourself then yeah?
Pablo: Yes, every so slightly. I was watching them from the side of the stage and I was thinking oh my god.”
James: “A lot of the Eastern European ones are always really good, Hungary was amazing. 5000 people on an island loads of people on each other’s shoulders waving flags, fucking mental, caught us by surprise.”
Pablo: “I quite enjoyed Reading and Leeds.”
James: “Big Day Out’ in Australia was brilliant and Electric Picnic over in Ireland was pretty unbelievable.”
Pablo: “Our visuals went down during the show so it was just like a band playing live, but we pulled it off and the crowd just went wild.”
Where around the world do you love DJing…?
James: “I love DJing in London, love Manchester, Liverpool, Hungary, Poland – anywhere in Eastern Europe. Tokyo is phenomenal – I’ve played at Womb since it started. Australia is always really good and weirdly, I always have a great time every time I play in LA.”
Pablo: “Barcelona for me, I used to have a monthly residency there, brilliant.”
James, you’ve got three great Global Underground releases under your belt, Romania, Barcelona and Bangkok – tell me though were you with James from Global when he fed a live parrot to an alligator in Miami?
“No I wasn’t there that time. But that’s where I met James. We were unplugging the speakers at Space because the DJ was playing this awful trance music and we were getting chased around the club by the security, it was like a scene from Benny Hill. It was ridiculous; we decided to quickly leave the club. I don’t think I have ever taken so many Es. “
And finally James, are the days of madness over?
“Well I won’t be going straight through for ten days again. I can still do the odd missing day though…”
‘Where Did The Night Fall’ is out May 10th on Surrender All
Words: Dan Prince
