DMC speaks to this legendary bassist ahead of the launch of his inside story of the mighty Joy Division
“It’s very strange. Over the years Joy Division have become a huge part of music culture. A lot of people think they know what happened. But they don’t! Anyone who’s ever written a book or made a film about Joy Division, unless they were sat in that van or car with us, they don’t know anything about it. Me, Barney, Steve, Ian, Rob, Twinny and Dave. Only us lot know what really happened.”
Peter Hook 2012.
Dan Prince speaks to one of the legends of music Mr Peter Hook on the publication of yet another brilliant book in which he talks with eye opening candour and reflection about the suicide of Ian Curtis, the band’s friendships and fall outs and the larger than life characters who formed a vital part of the Joy Division.
Hey up Hooky, where in the world are you right now?
“Hiya Dan, I’m standing outside my accountants which is as interesting as it sounds.”
Right, well let’s crack on. The last book written on Joy Division was by Mick Middles and Lindsay Reade and I remember at the time, you said they had got a lot wrong. Is that the main reason you have locked yourself away and written ‘Unknown Pleasures’? You once said being a writer is the hardest job in the world….
“Ha ha, well you have to remember I lie quite a lot Dan! Funnily enough, I have a face to face interview with Mick soon so that should prove interesting. The thing about writing the Hacienda book is that it taught me to have confidence in my writing. I used to think you lot had it easy but I can appreciate your profession now.Most of the time us rock stars are giving away the stories away fot free by doing interviews, by writing these books I have managed to bring massive chapters of my life all together. I’ve learnt a lot about the earlier part of my life, and it’s been nice to have been able to print photos of my mam and dad as a kind of legacy.”
How long did the book take to write?
“The Hacienda book took me three years, the Joy Division book two years so the New Order one should take about ten minutes!”
Do you think this book will lay some of your Joy Division demons to rest, the same way writing The Hacienda one did?
“That’s an interesting point you’ve made there. Before I wrote the Hacienda book I thought everyone was to blame for all of the mess. But after researching and writing the book I could see that we were all to blame and I have come to the same conclusion with the Joy Division book, we were all in it together. We’d look over at Ian and say ‘you okay Ian, you feeling alright?’ and he’d usually reply ‘I’m fine pal’ and we’d think nothing more about it. We were so young and hiding behind the ignorance of youth. Looking back, maybe we could have done more for Ian.”
I know Bernard Sumner has a memory like a sieve, but Steven Morris has a great memory – surely that was a little hard at times not to pick up the phone and pick his brains about something when writing ‘Unknown Pleasures’?
“You’re right, Bernard has a bloody terrible memory. I was watching the telly the other day and he was being interviewed about the early days and he couldn’t even remember that before Joy Division, we were called Warsaw for twelve months! The guy is unbelievable. I was listening to a play on Radio 4 on the way here earlier and it was all about this guy who simply couldn’t remember anything about his life. How great must that be to not get stressed about all their problems they’ve had in their lives? As for Steven, it has been really difficult not being able to have a relationship with him, even after we split up in 2006 we got on well. It was only when it was time to divvy up that all the major problems began.”
Have you had any feedback from any of them regarding the new book?
“No, they sent me a snotty letter wanting to have a look at it before it was published, but the book doesn’t belong to me, it belongs to the publishers. So you could say I wriggled off that little hook! Listen Dan, I got a lot of shit when I opened Factory’s offices as a nightclub, I got a lot of shit when I started doing Joy Division music again and I will probably get a load of shit for doing the book. That’s life. Move on.”
Did you have the same Editor for the two books?
“I had a kid called Claude Flowers work with me on the first book, he is an American ex-soldier and did a great job helping putting it all together. However, when he presented me with the finished copy it was all in an American style if you know what I mean. So I had to find someone with a neutral voice to translate it into an English manner which is where Andrew Holmes came in. He then worked with me on ‘Unknown Pleasures’ and is bloody marvelous.”
How did you construct the book?
“We did around 48 hours of interviews between ourselves, we transcribed it, put it all into chronological order and that was it it, all finished. The frightening thing about the book was that the whole Joy Division experience only lasted a short amount of time. A few years. You look back at some of the things that happened that are in the book and you think, fucking hell, did that really happen?”
So you mentioned the possibility of a New Order book…I take it that’s next on the agenda?
“My first thought Dan was good god no! I was never going to do a New Order book. Then after what they did to me I thought ‘right, let’s have them!’. My barrister sat me down and explained to me how by expelling me from New Order, they were minimalizing my earning potential and that I had a duty to maximize whatever income I could get from the band. So here we are.”
Earlier this year The Guardian wrote that “without doubt Peter Hook’s biggest mistake was believing the band couldn’t continue without him, when New Order’s very existence is testament to their extraordinary resilience.” Did you agree with that comment?
“I didn’t actually. When I split the band up I knew I had to be either stupid, naïve or incredibly arrogant. We didn’t use the name Joy Division when my new band started playing Joy Division material because we weren’t Joy Division – I would never have done that in a million years. But you have to look at the people involved, they had the majority vote over me and that was that. However the way I look at it is the same way as say an alcoholic has to stay away from booze. If you are unhappy in a situation, remove yourself from the unhappiness, unfortunately when I split with the band my problems never got resolved. They have been absolute cowards about it all and haven’t gone about things correctly. They aren’t New Order, they’re just a bloody tribute band. The same way I am a tribute band to Joy Division. There is a big difference the way band members are treated if the bands splits or somebody leaves. I suppose we are all as stubborn as each other.”
You haven’t picked easy subjects to write about; the sadness of Ian’s demise in Joy Division, the money wranglings and backstabbing in The Hacienda and now perhaps the bitterness surrounding New Order. How difficult is it writing this next book without being a total bitch?
“Ha ha ha. Well Dan, I wasn’t a bitch in the first two books was I? Looking back we had a fabulous ten years when we reformed. It was a fabulous time of wonderful excess, drugs coming out your arses, some hilarious adventures and miles more interesting anecdotes I can write about.”
Why were they happier times?
“Well one of the main differences was that in Joy Division there was fuck all money floating around. It was proper hard times. Saying that, there was no arguing over who got the biggest limo or the best fucking view from the hotel room. With New Order it was so much different and we had a ball. The New Order book I suppose will be a lot more traditionally written rock & roll book full of sex, drugs and wild stories.”
Earlier this summer NME named ‘Love Will Tear Us Apart’ as the greatest track from the last 60 years – ‘Blue Monday’ swung in at Number 5. You have said in the past that the band were four musical islands and you didn’t pay that much attention to the lyrics. Is that true?
“You have to bear in mind that technology back then wasn’t able to give us the audio pleasure it does today. You couldn’t hear a thing your lead singer was singing half the time, but it didn’t matter. We’d stand there thinking, ‘look at our wonderful lead singer with the crowd in the palm of his hand’. There was an aura around him and I didn’t need to hear his lyrical delivery. You have to look at the passion in lead singers like Iggy Pop or Jim Morrison…Ian was in that league. When I created The Light I really delved into Ian’s lyrics, had a bloody good look at them which is something I didn’t want to do when he died. He was fantastic with an onamaterpier delivery, he was fucking great at that. A very clever frontman and very gutsy.”
You portray your band members in the book as a gang of lippy northerners who liked a bit of agro and didn’t put up with a lot of shit. It’s a lot more human than a lot of other rock star books. Was that important to you?
“Well I’m not too sure whether the band will agree with you on the agro bit. Bernard was always hiding under the fucking piano with Steve, it was the usually the roadies that helped me get stuck in. or Ian if he was pissed/ I was and still am very protective of my gang, so yes Dan, I suppose I just told it as it was.”
How do you feel when you see fellow northern rock stars taking a pay cheque and going on reality shows then?
“You mean people like Shaun Ryder on Celebrity Jungle? Well I got asked to do it after he went on. When Shaun went on he had to cancel a load of Hacienda gigs and I remember having a right moan about it all. So I didn’t want to go down that route and ending up cancelling a load of shows. Funny isn’t it? One minute you are a rock star up on stage in front of thousands of people off your tits and the next you are on telly in front of millions eating a kangaroos arse.”
You received a last minute phone call from Damon Albarn a couple of weeks ago asking you to join his Africa Express bandwagon for an impromptu performance on ‘She’s Lost Control’ – what was that like? He never stops!
“He never stops does he? What a mad concept but it was brilliant to be involved with. He has earnt so much money he could be relaxing on a yacht in Cannes but instead he’s on a bloody train with 80 musicians from Africa and the indie scene touring around Britain doing impromptu gigs. Us UK based acts can travel the world with our music but native countries don’t get opportunities like this. Damon really puts it on at the sharp end.”
This year’s Mercury nominations have just been announced and they include The Maccabees, Plan B and Jessie Ware with Alt-J as red hot favourites. Do you think 2012 has been a good year for music?
“Oh god that’s a tough one. Dan. Because I am DJing everywhere I like a lot of dance music which I delve in and out of. I’mnot a fan of Plan B I can tell you that for starters. To be honest I hear a lot of good singles but not a lot of good albums right now. Look at someone like David Guetta, he makes great singles but not a great album. It’s all about that immediate fix in the UK, fuelling ourselves for that quick hit rather than a brilliant album.”
Did you ever tell Mick Hucknall that two girls once mistook Joy Division for his Frantic Elevators band at The Oldham Tower Club all those years ago?
“Ha ha. I’m always telling stories about Mick but I haven’t told him that one yet. He’s mellowed a lot with age so he doesn’t mind me gobbing off about him any more.”
And finally, what would your response from a 20 year old Peter Hook that if you had told him 35 years later he’d be doing book signings at the Ilkley Literature Festival?
“I’d have probably told you to fuck off and then chinned you.”
Peter Hook And The Light will be performing New Order’s first two albums “Movement” and “Power, Corruption And Lies” with two unique, inaugural London and Manchester concerts in January 2013, the first at the legendary Koko in London Thursday 17th January and the second a distinctive and special event, taking place at Manchester Cathedral, Friday 18th January. Alongside the performances of the albums in full and in sequential order, which has become one of the hallmarks of The Light’s live performances to date, the band are also set to revisit the many classic singles of the 1981 to 1983 including “Ceremony”, “Everything’s Gone Green”, “Temptation” and “Blue Monday” which New Order generally refused to include on the albums, considering the LP’s should stand alone in comparison to the single releases.
Tickets are priced at £20 which include charity donation to MIND & Forever Manchester and are on sale now.
“Unknown Pleasures – Inside Joy Division” written by Peter Hook is out now in all good bookshops.
